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March 23, 2005
A different take on Shirky
Wow. Ty, your blog about the Shirky article is so different from my take on it that I decided to create this entry instead of answering your post as a comment. Sorry everyone about the possible breach in blog etiquette...put it down to my novice-ness.
To begin, I am quite sure the Shirky is not suggesting that "the idea is that we are so obsessed with social engagement that when we are offered variety (choice) we choose groupthink." (Ty's post) He is pointing out the phenomenon of power law distributions in terms of "any tendency towards agreement" [emphasis mine], which hardly translates into "group think," a term that seems to carry some negative judgement, yes?
Shirky explicitly writes that the power law distribution becomes reified not because users dogmatically defend the group/ideology, but because it's "the normal functioning of large unconstrained social systems [...] it is a reliable property that emerges from the normal functioning of the system" (Shirky)
In my anthropology courses, as well as my history courses, my profs talked about societies/social systems, (and blogs are social systems), cycling through homeostasis recursively, especially in western societies that think bigger/more is progress, and progress is better. Unconstrained systems eventually create inequality among actors in the systems. The system then has to transform or fall apart or both. I think they can even track the cycle in terms of maximum populations, a sort of tipping point into social disarray.
Shirky's outline of what transformations the blog-o-shpere may go through is fascinating--but you know, even the A-list-turned-broadcast outlet can choose to not be that, shift (I was going to write "retreat") to conversational blogging, or downsize in any number of ways. Funny how I'm having trouble thinking of words that aren't preceived as derrogatory, like "downsize" and "retreat."
Shirky's last comment of the essay is great--the original bloggers weren't necessarily thinking about equal distribution. They weren't being egalitarian; they were just doing what they do. There simply weren't enough folks involved at that point for any one blog to be very far from stardom...if that was the goal, it was more available then than now, because that's the nature of spontaneous systems. I don't think he's saying any more or less than that.
Posted by dwinslow at March 23, 2005 07:44 PM
Comments
I agree with Diana here. Shirky’s assessment is one that considers “solutions” to the power law problem (although it’s not explicit in the article). I see him basically saying that for the system to have a unique solution to the A-list problem (if it is, in fact a “problem”), the number of ways to evaluate that problem (equations similar to the power law) must equal the number of what is not known, right? If a solution exists, the system is consistent (or so says Huberman). If not, the system in inconsistent (so says Shirky). Like Huberman, Shirky is considering the average behavior of a large number of people rather than the behavior of any individual person. But instead of drawing on the laws of probability to predict and explain, Shirky is drawing on human nature to explain the properties and behaviors of the system.
Posted by: mike at March 24, 2005 12:59 PM
hope you don't mind a non-student posting a comment, but couldn't resist a note on "blog etiquette'.
It's not only acceptable but recommended that if you have a different view on something, to write it in your own blog and do a trackback to the first blog. Ideally, you'd also include the link to that blog in your first mention (ie. in "ty, your blog about the shirky article...", the word "blog" should link back to his post). Ty can then respond in his own post with a track-back to this post. If you get a good debate going, be sure to reference all the posts (by saying.. "as we said here, here and here" with each "here" being a link to a post)... so later readers can follow the discussion. Of course, it's also fine to keep it all the comments section as well... but the fun part of having a discussion on multiple blogs is that each blog (in the general blogosphere) will often have different readers. You'll get more exposure and more diverse input into the discussion. Anyway, my 2 cents...
Posted by: jennifer at March 24, 2005 05:22 PM
Thanks, Jennifer!
Posted by: di at March 24, 2005 11:47 PM
I don't see where we are so much disagreeing, except perhaps your reluctance at my use of groupthink: "The act or practice of reasoning or decision-making by a group, especially when characterized by uncritical acceptance or conformity to prevailing points of view" (dictionary.com). This was and is the intent of my using that word, and it happens all over the place. When we act in accordance with what a group (any group) is doing, we are participating in groupthink. If I write an entry that gets lots of response and I want more response and action on my blog, I will probably continue posting along similar lines to connect with the group that has already started responding. I think Shirky describes and defines this point quite well, as does Jennifer chiming in on the appropriate etiquette. I don't quite get the logic or find it necessary to post my own entry (sorry, Jennifer). My point, and I think Shirky's, is that power dynamics are always in fluctuation, and I think that's what you are describing about your anthro class, right?
To Mike's point, while Shirky is offering descriptions and what might be characterized as solutions to perceived problems, I'm not sure that he characterizes the power law dynamic as a problem, but that is certainly shaded by my own resistence to see this or any idea as inherently problematic.
Posted by: TR at March 29, 2005 12:06 PM